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Updated puppy pics - and sire

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belgianmal	Updated puppy pics - and sire	Lead	[-]
Posts: 73 (07/16/08 08:17:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None This is Tova (De Vel Cy Pres') - a Belgian Malinois at 17 weeks. Not the most attractive time in a puppy's conformational life - but I think so far so good. Background - his sire is my boy Epic (AKC/UKC CH U-Ag1 Trew Bleue's Epic Endeavor, TD, CDX, RN, OA, NAJ, TT, CGC) - in my avatar. Epic is my first Champion and first Malinois. He is now 10, retired 2 years ago as the number 2 Malinois in the nation - always owner handled. Multiple group placements, nationally ranked in obdience and agility also, award of merit winner at 2005 national, Best in Working sweeps 2006 & 2007 national. He has also been worked in Ring Sport. In his first litter one of his daughters was winners bitch at our national, and then went on to finish her CH, AX, AXJ and her Schutzhund 1. Tova's mother is a CH, CD and BH. Ready for her IPO, but alas her owner got pregnant and that has been put on the back burner : ). She has two award of merit wins at our national. Last Edited By: belgianmal 07/22/08 08:37:31. Edited 1 time.
k9findm		#1	[-]
Posts: 532 (07/16/08 11:53:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Nice looking pup! I love the dark mask and chest, do you think it will lighten much more as he matures? "Common knowledge is the enemy of scientific advancement." - J. Gore
belgianmal		#2	[-]
Posts: 76 (07/16/08 12:05:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My belief is that he will darken on the body (the charbonnage/black overlay) and will lighten on his bib - hope that the mask does not lighten -his sire is very dark - a mahogany body with a fair amount of blackening and a pretty dark head. Mother not as much dark body - but a good strong mask. So often the Malinois from the show lines are lacking in body blackening - kind of a fawn with a black face - not my favorite and I think really does not fit our standard which mentions the black overlay. Both parents were correctly colored and no question Tova will fit in there with good base color and good blackening. Improved on his fathers head, kept his wonderful rear, darkened the eye, and improved the shape. The front - hummm. Father has an outstanding front, mother a good one - Tova, well let's hope with age it improves : ). Not terrible, but not as good as we had expected. His breeder said that their ears are as big as they ever will be around 16 weeks of age - goodness I hope so, he has some big honking ears!
k9findm		#3	[-]
Posts: 533 (07/16/08 12:16:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ha ha...you want to see huge Malinois ears??? My older male has huge ears (he's from KNPV lines, so really not a true Malinois, per se). I've had complete strangers tell me what a darn ugly dog he is. It's the truth! I also raised a working litter last year that had one female with huge ears too. Better pedigree for those pups (mostly French lines), but not exactly fitting the conformation standard at all. If I could find the working drive I love/need for USAR in a package that looks like your dogs, I'd be in 7th heaven. (btw - not saying the "show" Mals can't work, because I know they can, just saying I've never seen one that's drivey to the degree I like/need) "Common knowledge is the enemy of scientific advancement." - J. Gore
phneehowieollie		#4	[-]
Posts: 599 (07/16/08 12:19:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	i love malinois!! (is that the plural? i have no idea...) we had a batch of rottie malinois mix pups come in to the shelter one day, and holy crap, their mom was a stunner! ...i'm a buzzing bee :) and the ultimate shit disturber :)
RabbitMage.backyardchickens		#5	[-]
Posts: 31 (07/16/08 12:36:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Malinois is the plural, like moose apparently. :-) I've always loved the 'look' of German Shepherds, but what the show ring has done to the dog makes me not want to own one. I love seeing a breed like the Malinois who haven't been so twisted to bizarre standards. They're probably still not the right dog for me, but hey! I can dream.
belgianmal		#6	[-]
Posts: 77 (07/16/08 12:55:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I had GSD before Malinois. There are of course still wonderful GSD's - and I will always love them. The health issues just beat me down -not long lived enough. And I wanted a more driven dog - enter Malinois : ). The Malinois breed is a bit split though - with working lines and show lines. I wish more breeders would attempt to breed the whole package - dogs that meet the breed standard with the work ethic the breed is noted for. Much harder to do than just focusing on breeding one or the other I know. Unfortunatly for our parent club the rescue program is FILLED with back yard bred Malinois from people who thought they could produce sport dogs. They then are placed in homes that are ill equipped to deal with a laid back Malinois much less one that has any real drive - add to that the spookiness issue that we will always have in the breed. Makes rescue a mess. This is a perfect breed to clairfy how important home screening is for puppies and adults. They are adorable puppies who are black faces housing sharp teeth. Sometimes they are referred to as Maligators! If you are not ready for this it can surprise you. My fiance is a pointer guy and he complains every day that Tova bit him here, bit him there, play bites like crazy - of course the pointers never do that much mouthy play.
docsplace		#7	[-]
Posts: 800 (07/16/08 14:12:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	What a beautiful pup!! Some days life doesn't get any better than this!
kdow		#8	[-]
Posts: 449 (07/16/08 14:29:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am now convinced that the dog they had labeled as an akita mix (???) at the shelter is a Malinois/Dane cross. He had EXACTLY that kind of head shape/face look, but larger and built a little like a Dane, and also brindled like a Dane. (I almost lobbied for him to come home with us instead of Pirate, but he was a little too high-intensity for my mom to deal with.) (This dog was an owner turn in because he was too 'active'. Their only method of 'correction' when the dog did something bad was putting him in a small room by himself. The only exercise he got was running around in a backyard with a small dog. He was 1-2. Gee, I WONDER why he's hyperactive as anything.) Of course, this is the same shelter that claimed Pirate is a GSD mix, and I'm pretty sure he's Rotti/Pointer.
belgianmal		#9	[-]
Posts: 81 (07/17/08 05:49:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Some of the import "Malinois" are in fact mixed with Dane. So it is entriely possible
kdow		#10	[-]
Posts: 461 (07/17/08 07:27:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	He's still online- http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11011655 I think he looks more Mal than GSD at any rate.
belgianmal		#11	[-]
Posts: 85 (07/17/08 08:27:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	He strikes me as Dutch Shepherd mix. Probably really a pit bull mixed with some type of Shepherd - but Dutch Shepherds have the brindle pattern and are typically heavy-ier headed than a Malinois. K9 what is your thought?
k9findm		#12	[-]
Posts: 534 (07/21/08 10:37:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My guess is "big, goofy, brindle dog." I would think a GSD-Akita mix would have more coat. He looks really smooth. I can see why you would say Dutchie, but I think he could be any number of mixes. I can also see why kdow said Mal-Dane, but I agree that he is very heavy-bodied for that mix. "Common knowledge is the enemy of scientific advancement." - J. Gore
KaylaBlueHorse		#13	[-]
Posts: 924 (07/21/08 13:53:53) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I love your pup. What a handsome little man. I admire Mals from afar, but I think they would be a bit too much for me. I really like Dutchies though, as they seem to have an 'off' switch. I've met one that I really liked through the SAR groups I've been involved with in the past, but honestly most of what I know of the breed is information that I've gathered from a distance. Since I brought it up, I'll go ahead and ask you, BelgianMal and K9, your opinions.. I'm not dog shopping now (and probably won't be for years). Anyhow,I like the lighter build of Dutch Shepherds. I have a Lab currently and he's very high drive, and is just big all around; he's solid muscle, but kind of has this zone of bigness that extends out from him. I can't explain it any better. Also, I'm not interested in another lab (secretly, I really only like a handful of labs, is that weird? I think I'd be disappointed in the next one...) and I feel like I'm ready to 'move up' in dog breeds. Additionally, I really want a dog who gives me more of a sense of security. My guy is great at barking, but he's not 100% on the watchdog front. I really, really rely on dogs for a feeling of personal security, and didn't realize how much I'd miss it once I got my current guy (previously had a fantastic rottie). We move a lot, and I just like having a dog that has a heightened interest in being aware of it's territory. I'm probably not going to pick up pursuing SAR again, as I just would rather commit to other things. I do like dog sports though and would even probably enjoy dabbling in the protection sports. I have friends who have dogs who go 150% of the time, I know each dog is different, but I'd like to find a breed that generally offers high drive with the ability to stop, family friendly dogs. The Dutch fans tend to claim that their breed fits this standard, when bred ethically. Do you guys have personal experience with Dutch Shepherds? I know this is just a silly Internet posting, but do I sound too far off track here?
belgianmal		#14	[-]
Posts: 95 (07/22/08 05:16:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have not personal experience with the Dutch Shepherds. I will say, there are Malinois that do have an off switch. My old boy is very easy to live with - still a Malinois, was a very difficult puppy, a busy adult, but a great couch cuddler all of his life. He comes from what I would consider show lines rather than hard core working lines - and you might find that the show line Malinois are a bit eaiser to live with. Having said that, many of the show lines - in my opinion - can be shy. You would need to search out a breeder - and meet some dogs to pick a line that you liked temperament wise. Not trying to sell you on Malinois - just my observance of the breed, and that it might be something to consider when you get serious about dog shopping. I had GSD - and wanted a more driven and smaller dog - therefore the Malinois, so I understand the "bigness" factor of wanting something a bit more compact : ).
KaylaBlueHorse		#15	[-]
Posts: 925 (07/22/08 06:42:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	belgianmal wrote: I have not personal experience with the Dutch Shepherds. I will say, there are Malinois that do have an off switch. My old boy is very easy to live with - still a Malinois, was a very difficult puppy, a busy adult, but a great couch cuddler all of his life. He comes from what I would consider show lines rather than hard core working lines - and you might find that the show line Malinois are a bit eaiser to live with. Having said that, many of the show lines - in my opinion - can be shy. You would need to search out a breeder - and meet some dogs to pick a line that you liked temperament wise. Not trying to sell you on Malinois - just my observance of the breed, and that it might be something to consider when you get serious about dog shopping. I had GSD - and wanted a more driven and smaller dog - therefore the Malinois, so I understand the "bigness" factor of wanting something a bit more compact : ). No, this is great information! I'd love to hear knowledgeable opinions on these breeds. They are very similar. The shyness factor of a show bred Mal does concern me though - only because I don't want it to turn into fear, etc, etc and have that kettle of fish to deal with. It really comes down to visiting a breeder and getting to know their personal dogs.. I understand that. Would a Mal with more show lines have the qualities of a perimeter dog? Do they still maintain that characteristic? I've only been around the police dogs and well... it's no secret that they are just about the highest octane individuals around. So, you can understand my 'red flag' there; know I can no longer commit to the kind of job that type of dog needs. So glad you know what I mean when I say I'd like to 'downsize'. After posting, I continued to try and frame what it is that is just so tiresome with my guy.. because he really isn't that big (68#). It's that he's busy (which is fine) but not a careful dog. Thank goodness I did my homework and was able to choose a guy who had great drive, but focus as well.. otherwise, this house would be a disaster area. Here's my boy. I snapped this photo last year. He was flying around at the lake retrieving the multiple bumpers being strategically tossed by family members. I'm not sure who had more fun.
TrickRoperDeluxe		#16	[-]
Posts: 5890 (07/22/08 06:55:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've always loved the malinois , but after seeing these pics im even more captivated!
belgianmal		#17	[-]
Posts: 96 (07/22/08 08:31:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Kayla - he is too cute! Regarding the size issue - a friend of mine calls it body sensitivity - knowing where their body and is caring where it is. Like if you are laying in bed and the dog jumps up - if they flop down on top of you a body sensitive dog will realize it and adjust, a non body sensitive dog will just lay there : ). Some breeds are just more aware and sensitive to where they are. Belgians in general have temperament issues. Do not let anyone tell you they don't. They are a highly reactive dog and very sensitive to their environment. I have raised several herding dogs (my own and 2 guide dogs -GSD & Malinois) - and they go through more pronounced fear periods than, for example, many sporting breeds. The breeder of my older boy typically does not sell to families with children - not because Malinois are not fine with children - but they take an immense amount of time to raise them correctly. Again, the working K9's have a different temperament and you would want them too. I read at one point that many police departments were going back to GSD's due to the difficulty in finding handlers to work with the personality of the Malinois : ). My older boy is not only sweet and goofy - he has worked in ring sport - so has the drive to do some serious work - but he does not take it seriously. He has a very strong prey/play drive and ZERO defense drive. He sees nothing as a threat - part of that is just him, and part is that he was brought up to think everyone was a friend waiting to be introduced. I have no real doubt that if pushed and I was really threatened he would put up a very good show - and possibly back that up. My Belgian Sheepdog girl is not as stable as the Malinois - and will take a shot if pushed - not out of bravery but fear. If someone comes to the door, they will both bark - and there is no question that they are scarey looking. Whether it is a dog from show or working lines, if you do your homework you can find a good mix for yourself in either Malinois or Dutch - or whatever breed that strikes your fancy. Malinois rescue has oodles of dogs in rescue - some not so adoptable in my opinion, but some that will make wonderful pets.
belgianmal		#18	[-]
Posts: 97 (07/22/08 08:39:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This is Tova's sire - taken about 2 years ago - (age eight). My love, Epic : )
Deceptipup		#19	[-]
Posts: 3 (07/23/08 16:01:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Again, the working K9's have a different temperament and you would want them too. I read at one point that many police departments were going back to GSD's due to the difficulty in finding handlers to work with the personality of the Malinois : ). I read that too actually, and thought it was an interesting statement. But then again, I know that I and the Malinois personality are like oil and water. I love them, I can admire a handler that works with them well, but I'm sure not that handler! I have to admit, my GSD's are slow as molasses compared to them, but I'm okay with that. I lope along too when working. Your pup though... he is downright handsome, and his sire of course is an absolute knockout. Always a pleasure to see new photos of them both.
KaylaBlueHorse		#20	[-]
Posts: 948 (07/23/08 18:55:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	BelgianMal - I think I'd really like your older guy.. what a looker! Body awareness - yep, that' be it! However, he will move for me (because he knows better than not to), but he has zero pain reception (particularly when a toy is involved). Daily, he falls UP the stairs. You know those guide wires on telephone poles that are covered in the yellow high-vis plastic? He went taking off after a decoy and didn't see the guide wire (I'm sometimes the worst thrower) and ran smack into it at full force. He bounced off and flipped over, landed on his feet, and took off after the bird. He's smart as a whip, but sometimes you just have to close your eyes when he gets into his 'mode'. Interestingly though, as little body awareness as he often shows (like when he whips around so fast he smacks his head into the wall) he really did well bouldering and learning to climb ladders and stuff. What a weirdo. It's hard not to miss the reactiveness of Mal's, which is why I've always thought they'd be too much for me. Still though, I wouldn't hesitate to meet with some breeders when I begin my next search. Same with GSDs. I have a good friend who has a lovely (and uber talented) GSD who is a smaller model. Still, a little larger than I like (although dwarfed by her male GSD - he's a long, tall drink of water), but it's something to consider. When the time comes, I'll find the right one. Half of the enjoyment though, is the search! I'm one who takes forever to find the right dog/horse/anything, so I'll enjoy slowly defining what it is that I want the next go around

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Updated puppy pics - and sire

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