Thank you lisa, thats great. My trainer in MD I had for a short time had me start putting the side reins between his legs, which is the only way he gets any effect from them. Other wise he sucks up and back, this way he has to go down and out. he has gotten much better. He goes well in his loose ring, it has an oval link and a copper mouth, he seems to like it. Woman in MD also reccommended a chambon and/or de gogue, anyone ever used either of those? Good, bad?