Thx horsegal. Unfortunately... been there done that. He was on pelleted alfalfa, plain pelleted grain (12/7 or something) to keep his minerals and all in the right place and nutrenas rice bran shtuff that smells like playdo (which is 25% fat cant get much higher) for a whole summer and all he did was get a super shiny coat. When he was boarded they put him on some disgusting amount of sweet feed, minimum 12lbs a day, half of it race ready! I'm not sure why I didn't die from that. Going to get alfalfa cubes today to add to what he is already on, maybe that will make a difference. Oh and thx for the tip about the corn oil, but I've got three horses on it so we go through it rather quickly, no chance to spoil.