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Sep 9 08 1:29 PM
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Sep 12 08 1:28 PM
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Sep 13 08 3:22 PM
CindyECC wrote: My husband's mare used to have this problem. Didn't have a "whoa". When you could get her to stop, it'd be a split second or two and she'd start to walk off again. He didn't do a lot of transitions to fix this...just one thing. And he fixed it in a day. He backed her up. It sounds like you've already tried this some, but then you say she starts refusing to back? What is she doing to refuse? We use backing a lot as a correction. Not only does it help build muscle, but it teaches them to soften their neck and collect. If I were you, I'd spend some time with backing first. Practice backing until she does it softly. Of course, that's going to depend on your cues and release to get her doing it lightly. Our horses will back with nothing more than a shift of our seatbones. Then, I'd ask for a stop. As soon as you ask and she doesn't, make her back. Let her stand for a second or two so she realizes that's right. If she starts to move...back her up. When she'll stand quietly, move off again...and repeat. If she gets stubborn with backing as a "correction," keep asking. Don't let her "win"...that's how she's gotten so resistant in the first place. With other people riding her, she's learned that if she ignores cues, she eventually gets what she wants. I wouldn't switch to a harsher bit. If you keep your hands low when asking her to back, even if she's extremely resistant, you should be able to wait her out. The reason is that, if your hands are low so that her nose is being brought back to her chest (think extreme rolkur), her neck is going to get tired before you will...she'll want to back up to release the pressure. Then, of course, as soon as she backs up, give her the release. I once joked that my mare could do an endurance competition *backwards*. LOL That's because she can be pretty hot-headed and stubborn...so there are a LOT of situations where she tries to evade, run off, refuse to stop, etc. She hates puddles, mud, logs, you name it. One time, I backed her all the up a hill because she didn't want to go up it (away from the barn). So fine...she got to watch the barn while working *harder* and still going the direction I wanted. I only had to back her up it the one time.
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Sep 14 08 12:44 AM
Sep 14 08 12:45 AM
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Sep 14 08 8:30 AM
Sep 14 08 8:55 AM
Dilly Dawg wrote: The biggest problem with backing for correction is that if over done for a particular horse they will use it as an evasion method. I have retrained a few horses where this had become a problem all on it's own and I can say there is nothing more irritating to me than a clever horse who knows how to beat the system. From the description this horse either has an unmade mouth or an injured one. To me, pressure on her mouth either by constant contact (perhaps trying to make her go English if she's only been trained to respond to western cueing) , pulling to back or upping the anty with a harsher bit is going to either prolong the problem or make it worse. As described, the horse is already showing she is escalating her response by "getting more reluctant to stop or back." Not seeing this horse in person we can only guess but if I were working with an issue like this I too would begin on the ground and teach a good whoa, keep off her mouth except for steering while riding and teach her to stop off my seat. I know the OP said she doesn't want to spend a lot of time on this horse but in order to effect a positive change but fixing a foundation task like stopping properly is going to be critical to everything else this mare will do. I do agree with David that it's going to take some time and effort to do it right.
Sep 14 08 10:24 AM
The biggest problem with backing for correction is that if over done for a particular horse they will use it as an evasion method. I have retrained a few horses where this had become a problem all on it's own and I can say there is nothing more irritating to me than a clever horse who knows how to beat the system, lol. Dilly Dawg, been there, done that, with my mare, too. She's a smart one. But the trainer that we work with has an answer for this, too. Since backing is harder for the horse, we let them back. For example, the last time I needed to worm my mare. I put my right arm under her jaw, with my right hand resting on her face. That way, she can't toss her head away from the wormer paste or evade to the right or left...she can only back to evade. So she begins to back up...I simply back with her. After a few steps, she realizes that the backing didn't really get her away from anything and she'll stand politely to be wormed. When in the saddle, it's the same thing. If we're in a ring and I know she'll run out of space, I let her back. She eventually backs herself in a corner and realizes that didn't work. If we're in a situation where she continues to back, then I make her back faster. In other words, she's going to work MORE than what she wanted. If we're on a trail, then I simply make her back TO whatever she was trying to evade. The past week, we were trail riding and she was spooky about the park signs. She'd see one, start to back away. If I asked her to go forward and she'd continue to spook backwards, then I'd ask her to turn (She'd think "Oh BOY, I get to run away!") and continue to have her back up. Within a few short strides, she'd have her butt to the sign, I'd turn her forward again, end of "discussion." It only took a couple of sign spooks for her to realize that it was easier to simply go forward when I asked because she'd wind up there anyway. I think the NUMBER ONE issue with ANY horse training, ANY method, is consistency. When a horse gets away with something once, you've started a problem. If I ever let my horse use backing up as a way to avoid something, then yes, it can become a problem. There was one time when we were teaching her to NOT be pissy with another horse. Initially, we let her back away at her own speed (we had the horses facing each other, nose to nose) and stop on her own (the other horse would follow so that when she stopped, he was still nose to nose with her). After 10 min, she was accepting the horse in her space much better (ears up, relaxed, etc) until all of a sudden, she *lunged* at him to bite. At that point, we had to up the correction. Instead of backing at her speed and stopping to rest, she had to back at my speed (very quickly) and as soon as she stopped, we began moving forward again. In other words, we took out her rest time and everything became much more work for her. It took only a few more minutes before ALL pissy behavior stopped. By the time we finished for the day, the 2 horses would ground tie so close to each other that the stirrups touched each other's saddle. I really don't think my mare will ever think of backing as an easy way to get out of anything. Cindy
The biggest problem with backing for correction is that if over done for a particular horse they will use it as an evasion method. I have retrained a few horses where this had become a problem all on it's own and I can say there is nothing more irritating to me than a clever horse who knows how to beat the system, lol.
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Oct 2 08 4:55 AM
I have kind of a silly way to get a horse to back up or stop. So far it hasn't failed me though. Get a rope and tie it in a loop from the chest (around the lower neck) and back up to your hands. Hold it like a rein with your riding reins and pull it as such. The pressure on the neck is like someone pushing her back and it usually works as long as you're going somewhat slow. The one time I had enough faith to use this in a gallop, it was like I was riding a bale of hay.
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Oct 9 08 4:08 AM
Oct 31 08 8:53 AM
my sister-excuse the no helmet thing...
"The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us yet."
Oct 31 08 8:55 AM
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