Feminism

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sellefrancais	Feminism	Lead	[-]
Posts: 537 (10/13/08 16:03:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I am in a Management Op. "Women in Management & Leadership" class and am writing a paper on the "F" word (feminism/feminist). I feel like I have written this paper five thousand times, so I am struggling to write an 8 page paper right now. Can anyone help me out and answer any of these questions, or add to any? -What is your definition of a feminist? - When did feminism start and why? - What are the goals and main objectives? - Why does it have a negative image? - How is the negative image perpetuated? - How has feminism changed over time? - Is there still a need for feminism in present day? - What is your image of a feminist (stereotypical or not) I'm just struggling in what direction to take this, I have about a page so far, but am stuck. Thanks!
KizmetRanch		#1	[-]
Posts: 1581 (10/13/08 16:06:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I have absolutely no contributions but I'll be tuning in, interested to hear responses... FFV
oh Puh leeze	Scattered	#2	[-]
Posts: 1228 (10/13/08 16:21:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	What is your definition of a feminist? Feminist-someone who believes women are people. Why does it have a negative image? Because people with power don't want to relinquish it. That's human nature. It's usually easier to make "the other" look bad, than to make your side look good. How has feminism changed over time? It may have gone from control over self (legality of woman as a person in the eyes of the law; not as property of husband) to reproductive freedom, sexuality, and the idea of equal pay for equal work. Is there still a need for feminism in present day? Yes. Blog Rambling commentary Cogno, Ergo, Spud
GrotesqueLullaby		#3	[-]
Posts: 1940 (10/13/08 17:34:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My definition of a feminist is a woman (OR man) who believes in and advocates for gender equality, although obviously there is a huge/majority focus on the female side of things (hence the term). When it started: @__@ I wish I was old enough to answer that question. It's been a long for a LONG time, but the earliest active movements I've read about have started in the 70s. Why: People, mostly other women, were getting sick and tired of the gender biases we're taught in society. - What are the goals and main objectives? To promote gender equality and eventually neutralize gender identity (the last part depends on who you're asking). - Why does it have a negative image? Media coverage gone wrong. For entertainment value it isn't uncommon to take valid studies and movements, water them down, and then throw bits and pieces out to the public for money. For example, a lovely experiment was done on gender role that revealed that men and women would feel peer pressure to up or lower the numbers of people they said they slept with based on the people taking the test around them, and whether or not anyone next to them would be reading/grading those results. When they thought their neighbor would grade the test, most men had a tendency to up the amount of partners they had sex with, while most women downplayed it. When assured their results would be kept private, it was found that the men and women on the campus slept with about the same amount of people. However, the only time this study was mentioned in a magazine was under a title along the lines of "Women: They're lieing about sex lives" which then opens up to keep a lock on your woman's vajayjay cuz she's a hussy. - How is the negative image perpetuated? Inaccurate media coverage, anti-feminists, feminist misrepresentations (people who say they are feminists but are considered anti-feminist by a decent number in the feminist community). - How has feminism changed over time? Well, from what I've read right now feminism is in a bit of a danger zone. It's at the point in time when people believe all that needs to be accomplished with gender equality has been accomplished, and feminists are a bunch of ugly nags who just need a good fuck to get over it, and that's just not the case. There is "girl power" which is a "riot grrrl" knock-off. Girl power helps reinforce this notion that girls are born into a world where they are on an equal playing field with everything male. Girl power is setting girls up for expectations in a world that is not prepared for them, and it is depriving girls of the ability to deal with gender related let downs when they face them. Girl power is to feminism as Spice Girls is to say, G. I. Jane. - Is there still a need for feminism in present day? Absolutely. - What is your image of a feminist (stereotypical or not) My def is the same one up there. I believe a feminist is someone striving for gender equality. It is possible to focus on getting rid of gender bias against men (IE the stereotype that men have to just want sex and not love, can't hug or cry, or any of that if they want to count as "real men") and women (IE the stereotype that women only think of sex as "making love," can't just want a good fuck and be done with it, are naturally and solely emotional beings). Hope that helps, but maybe going on a real fem board would be more accurate and helpful to you. My FHOTD family reunion pwns yours. Meet Inspector Jimmy. Respect the Jimmy, or else. Besides, Jimmy has his own song. That makes him better than you.
TrickRoperDeluxe		#4	[-]
Posts: 7938 (10/13/08 17:47:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Why is it call feminism , why can't it just be called equality? The difference between winners and losers is that winners find a way to reach their goal regardless of what it takes.
GrotesqueLullaby		#5	[-]
Posts: 1944 (10/13/08 17:51:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Because is started out as a movement focusing on changing the notion that women are not socially equal to men, and for the most part the focus is really still on women, the name reflects that. I prefer to think of it as gender equality, but then again I have more of a focus on gender equality among men as a group, women as a group, and then men and women together than a lot of feminists I've met- who really only focus on women. My FHOTD family reunion pwns yours. Meet Inspector Jimmy. Respect the Jimmy, or else. Besides, Jimmy has his own song. That makes him better than you. Last Edited By: GrotesqueLullaby 10/13/08 17:59:04. Edited 1 times.
sellefrancais		#6	[-]
Posts: 543 (10/13/08 17:56:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I had never really realized until taking more women's studies classes, that men can be feminists too. At my school they just made a change in the department from Women's Studies to Gender, Sexuality and Women's Studies to hopefully encourage men to enroll in the classes (that's just one of the reasons for the change).
galen98		#7	[-]
Posts: 1208 (10/13/08 17:59:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Feminism started when women first began insisting on their right to vote. Black men were enfranchised in 1870, after the Civil War, (although much was done to prevent them getting to the polls) but women had to fight another 50 years, finally getting the vote in 1920. Here in Canada, women could vote in 1918, unless they lived in Quebec- they had to keep agitating until 1940!
cmcar		#8	[-]
Posts: 517 (10/13/08 18:09:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ok I can't say that I know a whole lot about feminist, other then the stuff I've heard and seen on TV/ Radio. But I'll give it a fair go. Feminist are ratical and usually lesbian, women that in general want women to be equal if not superior to the male population. Most times they only get involved with something if they can get attention on a wide scale from it. Start- Sometime before I can remember... Maybe 1980's when the "Me Generation" came about? Goals- Make women superior to men. Negative image- Mostly because of the loud and vocal members stirring up radical trouble/ lawsuits/ Protest. A few bad apples makes the whole group look bad. Spread of image- Again the radicals get media attention... they like to get on National News Channels. Time- (I'm not quified to answer this... sorry) Need- No I don't think so. Being a female getting into law inforcement I can tell you that I get picked before any man on the list for a job. Women for the most part are favored in many fields, due to laws that are already in place. Image-Umm the lesbians I've seen protesting on the TV....? Ok... I know I'm a little ignorant about what it is... as I said most of this is what TV has tought me, but it might be of some use. Thanks These eggs are addictive!
galen98		#9	[-]
Posts: 1210 (10/13/08 18:24:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	cmcar, you need to stop watching television.
oh Puh leeze		#10	[-]
Posts: 1240 (10/13/08 18:25:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	confused Seriously, Cmcar? Blog Rambling commentary Cogno, Ergo, Spud
GrotesqueLullaby		#11	[-]
Posts: 1945 (10/13/08 18:28:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	cmcar wrote: Ok... I know I'm a little ignorant about what it is... as I said most of this is what TV has tought me, but it might be of some use. GrotesqueLullaby wrote: - Why does it have a negative image? Media coverage gone wrong. For entertainment value it isn't uncommon to take valid studies and movements, water them down, and then throw bits and pieces out to the public for money. For example, a lovely experiment was done on gender role that revealed that men and women would feel peer pressure to up or lower the numbers of people they said they slept with based on the people taking the test around them, and whether or not anyone next to them would be reading/grading those results. When they thought their neighbor would grade the test, most men had a tendency to up the amount of partners they had sex with, while most women downplayed it. When assured their results would be kept private, it was found that the men and women on the campus slept with about the same amount of people. However, the only time this study was mentioned in a magazine was under a title along the lines of "Women: They're lieing about sex lives" which then opens up to keep a lock on your woman's vajayjay cuz she's a hussy. - How is the negative image perpetuated? Inaccurate media coverage, anti-feminists, feminist misrepresentations (people who say they are feminists but are considered anti-feminist by a decent number in the feminist community). I'm not discounting existance of radicals, but.... Really. Anywho, maybe you would find Bitch magazine to be a helpful introduction to you? Selle: Maybe this would give you some ideas for your paper? http://community.afropunk...d=2059274%3ATopic%3A70895 My FHOTD family reunion pwns yours. Meet Inspector Jimmy. Respect the Jimmy, or else. Besides, Jimmy has his own song. That makes him better than you. Last Edited By: GrotesqueLullaby 10/13/08 19:04:56. Edited 1 times.
cmcar		#12	[-]
Posts: 518 (10/14/08 06:56:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	oh Puh leeze wrote: confused Seriously, Cmcar? Yeah it's sad isn't it... I watch TV during my breaks at work, and it's always either news or sports. I really don't watch TV at home... I don't spend much time at home... I spend most of my free time at the barn. Yeah so I've lead myself to a sheltered life. But I love my horses too much Thanks These eggs are addictive!
AppyButt		#13	[-]
Posts: 1820 (10/14/08 09:24:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	-What is your definition of a feminist? A woman who believes that women are equal to men and deserve to be treated as such. - When did feminism start and why? Don't remember when, but the why to me is b/c society changed. Back in the old days of country living, the men would labor on the farm/land and the women would do all the domestic labor. Both sexes worked hard and the amount done by each was fairly equitable. Each sex did the work best suited to their strengths. Then came urbanization and suburbanization. Men would still go out and work, but no longer in the fields. They would work in offices, factories, and shops. Women continued to do all the domestic labor. Society glorified the businessman. It was assumed that men could only do 'men's work' even though the definition of 'men's work' had changed. It was no longer brute force and physical prowess that was needed, it was drive and intellect. But even though women posses these qualities, it wasn't recognized. Women continued to do the domestic labor and were essentially shut out of the work force except for the very poor who worked in factories or the 'working girls' who were secretaries, teachers, or nurses. Gradually, the division of labor was seen as unequal. More and more women recognized that they could do just as good a job as a man, but were denied the opportunity. As society became wealthier, family planning was more prevalent and the 'need' for marriage decreased. More and more women rejected the idea that they needed a man to have a good, comfortable, fulfilling life. And thus feminism was born. As always, there was unrest due to change. The older generation's prejudices had not been forgotten and the younger generation's beliefs had not become mainstream. Feminism arose out of this friction between tradition and progress. - What are the goals and main objectives? Equality for women. Equal pay for equal work, and the removal of the stigma that woman are irrational, emotional creatures that can't stand up to the same pressures a man can. Also the removal the double standard. If a man is aggressive, he's assertive. If a woman is aggressive, she's a bitch. - Why does it have a negative image? Because people always fear and ridicule what they don't understand. I brought this up on the abortion/rape thread too. I think that men don't realize how women feel. They're fine and they have opportunities, why wouldn't a woman? It's something they've never experienced, so they just don't understand. As I said above, there was friction caused by the emergence of the true working girl. The older generation looked down upon these upstart young women, and the parents of these young women were also resistant to the changing ideals and values. Some also took the radical stance on feminism, and thus created even more friction and negative feelings. There's a stereotype of the feminazi burning her bra, cutting her hair, and becoming a lesbian. Unfortunately, such extreme pictures have been painted of the 'enemy' for a long time. Check out some old WW1 or WW2 posters and see how we drew caricatures of our old foes. - Is there still a need for feminism in present day? I don't think there's need for such militant feminism, women have broken through several of the barriers that have previously held them back. There still needs to be a push for more change, though. Medical research is mostly performed on men, and very recent findings have shown that men and women react differently to certain drugs and illnesses. We still need to push for the removal of the double standard. It'll be slow, but we need to work on it and not undermine our fellow women. Feminism now needs to support women, not attempt to bring men down. - What is your image of a feminist (stereotypical or not) Me. There's my novel. Wade through it if you can. Ha ha! I just had this conversation with my bf not too long ago, so it's all fresh in my mind. Happy Halloween, everyone!
mayfly0		#14	[-]
Posts: 1589 (10/14/08 13:30:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Think women have achieved equality? Think again. -What is your definition of a feminist? A person who believes that men and women are equal, and should be treated as such. Aka the radical notion that women are people, too. Slightly off topic, do you folks believe that a man can be a feminist? I think so, but my boyfriend claims that since men can't fully empathize with women's plight, therefore they can be feminist supporters or sympathizers, but they can't actually be feminists. He's got a point, but I don't think that promoting equality necessarily requires having a uterus. - When did feminism start and why? Feminism has "officially" been around since the suffrage protesters in the 19th-20th century, but there have been women protesting the patriarchy since we began living in a patriarchy. - What are the goals and main objectives? To gain equality for women - not just through affirmative action-type programs, but through actually changing the views that many people hold of women and our role in society. - Why does it have a negative image? Because it's threatening. Just as whites get offended when their white privilege is mentioned, men get offended when their male privilege is mentioned. Even more so when those privileges are threatened. - How is the negative image perpetuated? Primarily through the media. There are plenty of MRAs in positions of power, and the fact that there ARE feminists who believe that men and women cannot be equal and therefore must be separate (separatist feminists) makes it easier for them to convince the sheeple that ALL feminists are like that. Which, for the record, we aren't. Personally, I think separatist feminists are kind of crazy, but they do have some valid points. - How has feminism changed over time? The movement has made tons of progress over the last 100 years or so, which is great, but we still have a long way to go on a lot of points. I think that one of the most important problems faced by modern feminism is the fact that we must convince everyone that we're actually useful and relevant - "we have the vote, and we're allowed to work outside the home, what more do you greedy broads want?" etc. - Is there still a need for feminism in present day? (basically continued from the last point) ...but the fact is, women are still lower class citizens, even in the supposedly free world. Here's a few examples of recent events that prove that feminism is not just relevant, but essential. (Many of these are links to blogs with commentary, but they provide sources.) A young girl was raped, and then referred to as a "prostitutes" by cops. A woman raped in full view of an MTA employee, he watches for 10 minutes. A woman in an abusive relationship is barred from having children as a condition of her probation. A 24-year old man is spared jail after repeatedly raping a 12-year old girl because the judge says he was "immature" and "not a predator." A trans woman was murdered, but the man who committed the crime used a "trans panic" defense and was let off with an extremely mild sentence, despite the fact that it was clearly premeditated. An estimated 60% of teen first pregnancies are preceded by experiences of molestation, rape, or attempted rape. (And more disturbing statistics.) Here's a post about the systematic victim-blaming that happens when young women of colour are exploited and raped. A third of UK citizens believe that a woman can have partial or full responsibility for her own rape. A Russian judge rules that sexual harassment is a good thing because it ensures the survival of the species. Cops kill an unarmed black woman for no good reason while she is holding her child, and is acquitted of all charges. (Another post on this subject.) - What is your image of a feminist (stereotypical or not) A person who believes that women and men should be equal. Can be a housewife or a "career woman", a Republican or a Democrat, an atheist or a Christian, or just about anything else. Cmcar, I highly recommend reading the links I posted. ETA: As if I didn't have enough stuff here, this is another article I think everyone should read: Rapist's defense: the victim was smiling in some facebook pictures, therefore she wasn't traumatized by the attack. You might as well just call me McFly. FFV Follow me on Twitter! Last Edited By: mayfly0 10/14/08 13:36:49. Edited 1 times.
colorisnteverything		#15	[-]
Posts: 730 (10/14/08 14:57:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	-What is your definition of a feminist? A person of any gender or background who believes that women deserve respect and equality in the same ways that men do. - When did feminism start and why? Hmm... I would argue that it started before Mill in England, but the Mills took it to a whole 'nother level. In America, it is often associated with the abolishionist period. Basically, women began to realize that they deserved better and men who were with them in this cause said, "There is no reason you can't do anything you want!" - What are the goals and main objectives? To promote and support the image of equality. When I talk about feminism with other feminists, I often feel like I am in one safe, happy family. We don't agree on everything, certainly (I am a conservative, after all), but we are supportive of a common goal - women being treated equally with men and respected for what they are - EQUALS. - Why does it have a negative image? Basically the culture of masculinity in society (well some, you can't make a blanket statement about society) wanted to keep women down and out. It goes against the gendered distribution of labor (read Judith Butler) and you can really see why it shook things up. Women may perpetuate this as well as men - like my grandmother - it isn't about sex. It's just that American society is run by a masculine set of principles and feminism pisses some people off. Too bad. - How is the negative image perpetuated? The media loves to think we are all raving liberal loonies. Some of us may be liberal. Some of us may be raving, but it is only because things need to change. Most of us are not loonies and we don't bite. The media doesn't help by making gender seem like a "lost cause" because we are "all equal now". If people ignore that there ARE issues with women's rights and also race, they only create a bigger problem. - How has feminism changed over time? Heck, yes! It was originally about the right to vote, then the right to reproductive freedom, and now there are TONS of different types of feminism. In the '90's we saw a rise of consumer feminism, which I still think exists. Think Lara Croft. At best, most of this was pseudo-feminism IMO. Still, feminism can be whatever you want it to be as long as it supports the basic message. Women today are demanding more rights at home - the right to not HAVE to work an 18 hour day when they come home from work, the right for an evening off, the right to say NO when husbands ask them to bus Jimmy all over. Women are also demanding better, higher-paying jobs. - Is there still a need for feminism in present day? Uh. Yes. Why would there NOT be? Did you see Sarah Palin's great speech at the RNC? I did. Did you notice that her daughters as well as Cindy McCain were all shown holding the baby while she was speaking? This is a hint to all of us ladies that women can have rights, but they are natural mothers and born nurturers. My mother and I noticed it, but yet everyone thinks I am just "making up conspiracy theories". I am trained in semiotics. We haven't gotten over inequality. We haven't gotten over useless gender norms. Period. It's why my Dad still takes flack for being "Mr. Mom" when I was little. People, wake up! We need you! It makes me sad to think that my party would believe I am stupid enough to vote for a girl just because she is wearing a skirt. She is NOT a feminist! She is supporting John McCain on his work AGAINST equal pay, equal work. She does not support your right to get birth control pills. Abortion is a whole 'nother issue. - What is your image of a feminist (stereotypical or not) See, I used to think it was my psychotic English prof who had like 4 different colors of hair and wore animal prints all the time. She would talk on and on about her PETA protests and blah, blah, blah, but she wasn't really a good representation. Today, I sat down with 4 feminists for a book club a prof is starting. All of us looked like intelligent young women, nothing out of the ordinary. We wore jeans, blouses, and boots primarily. I was the only one in a skirt. I have another prof who is a feminist. He has a shirt that says "I am a feminist". I know a lot of male feminists - straight and gay. I think a feminist can be anyone. -Colorisnteverything- Paint Horse enthusiast, student, political geek
FreeFilly		#16	[-]
Posts: 251 (10/14/08 17:21:09) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	mayfly0 wrote: Think women have achieved equality? Think again. -What is your definition of a feminist? A person who believes that men and women are equal, and should be treated as such. Aka the radical notion that women are people, too. Slightly off topic, do you folks believe that a man can be a feminist? I think so, but my boyfriend claims that since men can't fully empathize with women's plight, therefore they can be feminist supporters or sympathizers, but they can't actually be feminists. He's got a point, but I don't think that promoting equality necessarily requires having a uterus. - When did feminism start and why? Feminism has "officially" been around since the suffrage protesters in the 19th-20th century, but there have been women protesting the patriarchy since we began living in a patriarchy. - What are the goals and main objectives? To gain equality for women - not just through affirmative action-type programs, but through actually changing the views that many people hold of women and our role in society. - Why does it have a negative image? Because it's threatening. Just as whites get offended when their white privilege is mentioned, men get offended when their male privilege is mentioned. Even more so when those privileges are threatened. - How is the negative image perpetuated? Primarily through the media. There are plenty of MRAs in positions of power, and the fact that there ARE feminists who believe that men and women cannot be equal and therefore must be separate (separatist feminists) makes it easier for them to convince the sheeple that ALL feminists are like that. Which, for the record, we aren't. Personally, I think separatist feminists are kind of crazy, but they do have some valid points. - How has feminism changed over time? The movement has made tons of progress over the last 100 years or so, which is great, but we still have a long way to go on a lot of points. I think that one of the most important problems faced by modern feminism is the fact that we must convince everyone that we're actually useful and relevant - "we have the vote, and we're allowed to work outside the home, what more do you greedy broads want?" etc. - Is there still a need for feminism in present day? (basically continued from the last point) ...but the fact is, women are still lower class citizens, even in the supposedly free world. Here's a few examples of recent events that prove that feminism is not just relevant, but essential. (Many of these are links to blogs with commentary, but they provide sources.) A young girl was raped, and then referred to as a "prostitutes" by cops. A woman raped in full view of an MTA employee, he watches for 10 minutes. A woman in an abusive relationship is barred from having children as a condition of her probation. A 24-year old man is spared jail after repeatedly raping a 12-year old girl because the judge says he was "immature" and "not a predator." A trans woman was murdered, but the man who committed the crime used a "trans panic" defense and was let off with an extremely mild sentence, despite the fact that it was clearly premeditated. An estimated 60% of teen first pregnancies are preceded by experiences of molestation, rape, or attempted rape. (And more disturbing statistics.) Here's a post about the systematic victim-blaming that happens when young women of colour are exploited and raped. A third of UK citizens believe that a woman can have partial or full responsibility for her own rape. A Russian judge rules that sexual harassment is a good thing because it ensures the survival of the species. Cops kill an unarmed black woman for no good reason while she is holding her child, and is acquitted of all charges. (Another post on this subject.) - What is your image of a feminist (stereotypical or not) A person who believes that women and men should be equal. Can be a housewife or a "career woman", a Republican or a Democrat, an atheist or a Christian, or just about anything else. Cmcar, I highly recommend reading the links I posted. ETA: As if I didn't have enough stuff here, this is another article I think everyone should read: Rapist's defense: the victim was smiling in some facebook pictures, therefore she wasn't traumatized by the attack. I know some anti-feminist people (mostly woman). But those links are still shocking. Thank you for sharing them. I need to have some people read those. "The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way it treats its animals."Gandhi
KizmetRanch		#17	[-]
Posts: 1603 (10/14/08 19:47:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Excellent links mayfly. Very disturbing. FFV
Brian Rad		#18	[-]
Posts: 528 (10/15/08 00:34:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	If you are made to believe that all women are innocent victims and all men are brutal rapist pigs you are going to lead an unhappy life. If you are made to believe that all women must prove that they can and should have and do it "all" you are going to lead an unhappy life. There are fundamental intrinsic differences in men and women . We do different things in different ways for different reasons. We fit into different jobs and roles in life not because of oppression or sexist stereotypes but because of who and what we are. My mother was bound and determind to prove that she was as good as her twin brother who was very successful in the world of business . She worked relentlessly at a job she hated for thirty five years and died five short years after she retired - just like a man. People have a tendency to want the one thing they can't have when they could be happy with everything they already do have.
colorisnteverything		#19	[-]
Posts: 734 (10/15/08 01:40:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	So, what, Brian, are you saying that because I don't want kids and WANT to have a successful career in a male-dominated field I am just "trying to hard" and should stick to the kitchen baking cookies? We are not saying that men are rapist pigs. We are saying we have rights, too. And it is a statement like yours that makes little girls believe it is unhealthy to go to college and get anything but a teaching or MRS degree. -Colorisnteverything- Paint Horse enthusiast, student, political geek
Brian Rad		#20	[-]
Posts: 529 (10/15/08 08:43:50) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I am saying it's not reasonable to expect to want to have kids and a successful career and a hairless sensitive metrosexual husband who will still go downstairs to see what the noise is at 3am. Maturity is about realizing you have limitations and making compromises . Staying at home and raising children properly is more important than any career will ever be . Minimizing that is a huge disservice and a huge mistake.

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