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Posts: 645
Apr 4 08 7:40 AM
Many of your top cutting horses don't reach 14h. They're getting smaller and smaller, in case you haven't noticed.
Posts: 530
Posts: 964
Apr 4 08 7:41 AM
forthefutureofthebreed wrote: World Champion and AQHA Champion are two different titles. And you are right, it's all about the money, isn't it. To hell with the future of the breed.
I'm sure they care about the future of the breed just as much as you do. Just because they have a different vision doesn't mean they don't care.
Posts: 2909
Apr 4 08 7:42 AM
forthefutureofthebreed wrote: "BTW, did someone include DeRenzo on the Ridiculous Names thread already? DeRenzo sounds like a lame Rhythm & Blues artist, doesn't it?" It's a whole lot better than PocoPeppyDriftyBuckBadgerBlueDoc anything...
Apr 4 08 7:43 AM
forthefutureofthebreed wrote: Well, they're hardly going to advertise them as under 14 hands, so who is to know unless you've seen them in the flesh? Even if you're correct, which I don't think you are, all the linebreeding without substantial outcrosses itself will create smaller and smaller horses in subsequent generations. And that is a fact.
Let's see some pics and diagrams of the under 14 handers. All we have is your word. Substantial outcrossing does not need to be outside of the breed. That's a fantastic way to lose type.
Apr 4 08 7:44 AM
World Champion and AQHA Champion are two different titles. And you are right, it's all about the money, isn't it. To hell with the future of the breed.
Posts: 3344
O.K. let's step back here because you seem to have lost track of what is being discussed here. Every single discipline has become specialized that includes halter and cutting. Both disciplines have bred for specific conformation types that generally are not going to produce a long term lasting - sound horse. You have posted about halter horses not being quality and I (and others) are trying to show you that your own passion has it's little secrets and no-no's also. Picking on anything other than what you happen to like is not productive and doesn't persuade anyone to see things your way. Apps don't compete well against QH's for reason's just like you. There is a mentality with a lot of QH people/competitors/judges that only AQHA is quality and everthing else sucks. I lived in Texas for 27 years and I know first hand the prejudices that exist in Quarter Horse Country. But they are just that, prejudices with no actually scientific fact to back them up. I like quarter horses better than apps also. I don't personally care for TWH, Paso's or Mules, but I would not be so ignorant to get on here and state they were poorer quality. GotCow wrote: The reason people prefer to compete in NCHA or NRHA is because of the bigger purse, it's got nothing to do with their horses' height. Chicks Achy Braky (ridden by Jim Babcock himself) is an AQHA World Champion. A guy I know used to own a 14 hand horse (PF Mr Badger Sanjo) that was AQHA Reserve World Champion and Congress Champion.
Apr 4 08 7:47 AM
Well even if Smart Little Lena was the absolute only 13 H horse ever to be registered in all of the history of aqha ever........you're talking about the number one sire of cutting type horses so it does matter.
GotCow wrote: If the goal is producing horses that look good and are also structurally correct so they can do more than just standing there, wouldn't it make more sense to use horses who resemble that ideal better than DeRenzo? like this one? Major JD Parker
Apr 4 08 7:50 AM
Apr 4 08 7:54 AM
O.K. let's step back here because you seem to have lost track of what is being discussed here. Every single discipline has become specialized that includes halter and cutting. Both disciplines have bred for specific conformation types that generally are not going to produce a long term lasting - sound horse. You have posted about halter horses not being quality and I (and others) are trying to show you that your own passion has it's little secrets and no-no's also. Picking on anything other than what you happen to like is not productive and doesn't persuade anyone to see things your way. Apps don't compete well against QH's for reason's just like you. There is a mentality with a lot of QH people/competitors/judges that only AQHA is quality and everthing else sucks. I lived in Texas for 27 years and I know first hand the prejudices that exist in Quarter Horse Country. But they are just that, prejudices with no actually scientific fact to back them up. I like quarter horses better than apps also. I don't personally care for TWH, Paso's or Mules, but I would not be so ignorant to get on here and state they were poorer quality.
Apr 4 08 7:57 AM
"do they stop you from breeding the horses you want?" Actually, they do, yes. If people do not breed for the improvement of a breed, or adhere to a breed standard, then there will not be breeding stock of integrity to choose from for those who breed with the best interest of the breed at heart. They are in it for the money and the love of their own discipline. They are not in it for breed improvement, nor integrity of the breed in the long run.
Apr 4 08 7:58 AM
Actually, they do, yes. If people do not breed for the improvement of a breed, or adhere to a breed standard, then there will not be breeding stock of integrity to choose from for those who breed with the best interest of the breed at heart. They are in it for the money and the love of their own discipline. They are not in it for breed improvement, nor integrity of the breed in the long run.
Apr 4 08 8:01 AM
Apr 4 08 8:02 AM
GotCow wrote: I was replying to your incorrect statements, that's all. You said people compete in NCHA and NRHA because their horses are too small to compete in AQHA events, and that's COMPLETELY FALSE. I was just proving that. Nope, never said that. You better go back and reread the posts. You interpreted it that way. I said they compete in NCHA and NRHA because that is where the money is - not because of the size of the horse. They are spending the high breeding fees to compete for points? I don't think so. What I am insinuating however is that if you are competing in a venue that doesn't require your horse to be registered and/or qualify for registration and adhere to registration rules, then you as a breeder will not have to keep in mind that your crop must be eligible for registration. Please go back and read my posts - you're wrong
Apr 4 08 8:05 AM
How many of your cowhorse sires have sired over 20 AQHA Champions? Those are horses that can perform well AND look good, in case you weren't aware of that title.
Apr 4 08 8:07 AM
forthefutureofthebreed wrote: It's not BS when I cannot find a QH stallion with the qualities I require for my breeding program. They're all so specialized that they've lost what the QH was to begin with.
Maybe, just maybe, you never liked QHs to begin with? If it is so hard to find what you like in the largest breed, maybe you are looking in the wrong breed. If I wanted a Friesian, I wouldn't go to Arabian breeders. I think if you took a good hard look at yourself you'd probably end up with a nice OTTB.
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