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Posts: 22228
Apr 15 08 6:35 AM
PatB81 wrote: There are actually 3 stages of sedation a horse must go through in order for the drug to take complete effect. In the case of most Itramuscular injections it takes about 20 minutes or so for the drug to take effect the way it's supposed to. However, in all animals the second stage of sedation is an excitatory phase. They become more attune to noise, light, movement and become more agitated by those things. This is the reason why when you sedate an animal you're supposed to put them in a quiet, comfortable area for about 20 minutes before you fuss with them. If you stress the animal - horse or otherwise - out during that excitatory phase it will (if you're lucky) cause the sedative NOT to work or (if you're not lucky) cause the exact OPPOSITE reaction of what you want. In the case of the OPs horse who was already stressed out and strung out, chances are there would be either no effect from the Ace or even possibly the opposite effect, causing him to become MORE stressed out. It really bothers me to hear of a trainer wanting to "sedate" a horse that's already in that frame of mind - even more that she considered it an option at a show. As for horses being perfect at shows... I had a 3 1/2 year old I took to her first shows last year and she was an angel (before you crucify me, it was usually 2 walk/trot classes per show (which was every other week) just to get some mileage on her. I know plenty of people here believe no horse should have anyone on their back before they're 4 years old, and all that jazz. I respect that, but and return to you that I was working with a very knowledgeable trainer who kept close tabs on us to make sure no one was overworked). She was probably one of the best behaved horses at the show, but that was her personality. She was just a steady eddy by nature. On the other hand, some of the other youngsters we went with just had a really hard time settling down and just needed TIME being in a new environment and realizing work was the same there as anywhere. If only we were all so lucky that we could pull our horses out of the field, haul them anywhere and have them act as if it was just another day
Posts: 5859
Apr 15 08 6:38 AM
Posts: 14759
Apr 15 08 8:18 AM
pdj47 wrote: HorseHawk wrote: pdj47 wrote: HorseHawk wrote: I had a barrel mare that I firmly believe was nearsighted. I had to give her 1/2 cc of ace orally just to warm her up before her run. She would shy at distant objects no matter how many times you took her around them. She would wash out just warming her up before a run at a show from shying from anything & everything. I had hauled her extensively & always won money once she entered the arena & was running. As it seemed if she was running she didn't have time to look for spooks she did perfect. When going slow her nickname was Rickashay!...lol... Many horses have sight problems...Just like people...Causes a lot of the shying & not wanting to cross water (depth perception)...You've seen these horses with white around the edges of their eye? Means they are gotche eyed....For example, an eye that has white at the top of the eye is pointed down & don't see in front of him well so he don't get to see well until it's right on top of something & causes the shying....combine a gotched eye & a hot bred horse & you have real problems.. ____________________________________________________________________________ I would consider those types as farsighted. Mine was nearsighted & had a calm eye, but was very race line bred top & bottom. Very quick to react to something. Thats where a lot of you folks problems come from...Hot bred horses that get very little work & fed to good...I'd love to convince just one of you to quit pretending to be Englishmen,get ya a good western saddle & a foundation bred QH ya might just go to enjoying your horses.These types of horses have much quieter dispositions & would do much better in your boarding environment....
HorseHawk wrote: pdj47 wrote: HorseHawk wrote: I had a barrel mare that I firmly believe was nearsighted. I had to give her 1/2 cc of ace orally just to warm her up before her run. She would shy at distant objects no matter how many times you took her around them. She would wash out just warming her up before a run at a show from shying from anything & everything. I had hauled her extensively & always won money once she entered the arena & was running. As it seemed if she was running she didn't have time to look for spooks she did perfect. When going slow her nickname was Rickashay!...lol... Many horses have sight problems...Just like people...Causes a lot of the shying & not wanting to cross water (depth perception)...You've seen these horses with white around the edges of their eye? Means they are gotche eyed....For example, an eye that has white at the top of the eye is pointed down & don't see in front of him well so he don't get to see well until it's right on top of something & causes the shying....combine a gotched eye & a hot bred horse & you have real problems.. ____________________________________________________________________________ I would consider those types as farsighted. Mine was nearsighted & had a calm eye, but was very race line bred top & bottom. Very quick to react to something.
pdj47 wrote: HorseHawk wrote: I had a barrel mare that I firmly believe was nearsighted. I had to give her 1/2 cc of ace orally just to warm her up before her run. She would shy at distant objects no matter how many times you took her around them. She would wash out just warming her up before a run at a show from shying from anything & everything. I had hauled her extensively & always won money once she entered the arena & was running. As it seemed if she was running she didn't have time to look for spooks she did perfect. When going slow her nickname was Rickashay!...lol... Many horses have sight problems...Just like people...Causes a lot of the shying & not wanting to cross water (depth perception)...You've seen these horses with white around the edges of their eye? Means they are gotche eyed....For example, an eye that has white at the top of the eye is pointed down & don't see in front of him well so he don't get to see well until it's right on top of something & causes the shying....combine a gotched eye & a hot bred horse & you have real problems..
HorseHawk wrote: I had a barrel mare that I firmly believe was nearsighted. I had to give her 1/2 cc of ace orally just to warm her up before her run. She would shy at distant objects no matter how many times you took her around them. She would wash out just warming her up before a run at a show from shying from anything & everything. I had hauled her extensively & always won money once she entered the arena & was running. As it seemed if she was running she didn't have time to look for spooks she did perfect. When going slow her nickname was Rickashay!...lol...
Many horses have sight problems...Just like people...Causes a lot of the shying & not wanting to cross water (depth perception)...You've seen these horses with white around the edges of their eye? Means they are gotche eyed....For example, an eye that has white at the top of the eye is pointed down & don't see in front of him well so he don't get to see well until it's right on top of something & causes the shying....combine a gotched eye & a hot bred horse & you have real problems..
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Posts: 275
Apr 15 08 9:25 AM
Posts: 14438
Apr 15 08 9:45 AM
luckyducker wrote: One caveat to the oral ace- It works best and is absorbed quicker if given under the tongue. It will work if squirted in the mouth, but not as effectively and not as quickly. I also agree that you should try your horse on ace several times before you head to a show, and should never be used as a subsitute for good training. We had a client who kept her horse on long term reserpine so she could ride it at home. I always wanted to ask, "Why don't you just work on training the horse!"
So, if I'm reading all this right, the benefits of oral Ace is that it kicks in quicker? I've only given it IM or IV.
Posts: 2785
Apr 15 08 9:47 AM
FFV FFV FFV
Posts: 24
Apr 15 08 10:00 AM
Posts: 1357
Apr 15 08 10:01 AM
Apr 15 08 10:05 AM
smcpaintpony wrote: thats a MAJOR benefit for me if i ever need it.. i hate NEEDLES>>>> !!!
I don't like giving shots much either so I really like the oral ace. I've used it before for the shoer, or to keep a stalled horse quiet. Hey BTW that picture of your son with his pony was SO CUTE!! The one where he is going... WHOA HOSS!! LOL I loved it!!
Apr 15 08 10:07 AM
Apr 15 08 11:20 AM
Goflipper wrote: EagleView, I don't think it kicks in quicker. The only benefit is not having to give a shot.
Oh, ok I'm a nurse so I don't have any problems giving shots. I'll just keep doing it my way Good to know though.
Apr 15 08 12:00 PM
Apr 15 08 12:06 PM
Posts: 7779
Apr 15 08 4:32 PM
Horse and I, we're dancers in the Dark
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Apr 15 08 5:22 PM
ArabiansandOtherAliens wrote: This is aliens' mother. Who wins on a sedated horse at a show? Are you just wrapped up in winning something? If you have to sedate your horse, the drug is in control, not you. Thus, you've lost the contest before you begin. I have seen well trained horses that lost because of poor handling. I greatly respected the owner and rider of the horse, but it was the girl too young to drive that told me she had to walk _____ around because he would freak with all the people at the show. I disagreed and the horse did most of his dressage test on his hind legs. The girl cried through the entire test as we watched. The rider and I gave her the horse to cool down and groom, and watched them walk away shaking our heads. She walked him around with her all day, fed him icecream and things no horse should have while they walked under bleachers , over gullies and befriended any animal they came across. So it was that when this same nervy son of Abdul was saddled up and ready to run cross country, he could hardly wait and nothing stopped him. He shattered the competition, looking like a flying Pegasus. In the stadium, where every horse was nervy from wind and cold and crowds, he strolled out from under the bleachers - having gotten use to the thundering noise overhead from the child leading him there to graze - and burst into his contained arena with an energy that had the people standing in awe of his abilities. I was wrong to expect the horse to go from stall to dressage. The young stable hand knew he needed his people close through out the show to keep him grounded - literally. It didn't take drugs to keep him calm. It took courage and conviction and a lot of time just introducing the animal to all the boogie men around. Regardless of what others thought, she spent the entire time at the show with the animal. That's what its about. You and your horse - one entity.
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Apr 16 08 11:39 AM
Posts: 12210
Apr 16 08 11:47 AM
baxtersmom wrote: I believe a problem with using sedatives for any schooling experience (show, trailering, etc) is that the horse is so zonked it can't LEARN while it's on it... There was a book I loved as a kid... The Monday Horses... the girl in the book got hurt during a show, and then she found out the horse she was riding was doped up on strychnine...
Posts: 2649
Apr 16 08 1:30 PM
Posts: 15704
Apr 16 08 1:48 PM
Apr 16 08 2:11 PM
Goflipper wrote: I know people that give a little ace to bleeders.
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