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Posts: 18140
Sep 23 09 10:09 PM
xxthephoenix89xx wrote: Hey, we didn't even have the Naval fleet to chase down Britain if we WANTED to. They wouldn't leave us alone, or let us go. Since they didn't listen to the Declaration of Independence, wouldn't that make THEM the aggressors?
Posts: 3312
newmare wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: If you disagree with everything about it and you hate it that much... go somewhere else. That's why we have the Constitution, and that's why the Constitution can be amended. If you honestly don't want to "pledge allegiance to the flag" then that's fine. . .but honestly, there are other places you could go where you wouldn't have to worry about that. I don't want to sound like I'm saying "love it or leave it", but if you have a problem with the US government/state system/etc. then why wouldn't you put yourself in a more comfortable place? This is why we VOTE. This is why we started a representative democracy. So that when we see something go wrong we CAN change it. We don't HAVE to leave, because we can fix what we see as wrong. The constitution most certainly CAN be amended. We just ratified a new amendment in 1992. We've repealed amendments in the constitution. Because there are many GOOD things about the United States. Because there are so many things that I WOULDN'T want to change. Why move somewhere that has thing A I want but not B, C, D, E, and F when I can have B, C, D, E and F and just have to change A?
barrelracer89 wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: If you disagree with everything about it and you hate it that much... go somewhere else. That's why we have the Constitution, and that's why the Constitution can be amended. If you honestly don't want to "pledge allegiance to the flag" then that's fine. . .but honestly, there are other places you could go where you wouldn't have to worry about that. I don't want to sound like I'm saying "love it or leave it", but if you have a problem with the US government/state system/etc. then why wouldn't you put yourself in a more comfortable place?
barrelracer89 wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: If you disagree with everything about it and you hate it that much... go somewhere else. That's why we have the Constitution, and that's why the Constitution can be amended.
xxthephoenix89xx wrote: If you disagree with everything about it and you hate it that much... go somewhere else.
Sep 23 09 10:10 PM
xxthephoenix89xx wrote: I understand that newmare. However, not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance isn't doing anything to change what you don't like. You're just showing dis-loyalty, breaking up the nation from the inside out. Besides, most kids refusing to stand/say the pledge are only doing it for a publicity stunt/because their parents are in a flither about it. They don't even really know what they are saying.
Sep 23 09 10:11 PM
WhoKilledBambi wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: Hey, we didn't even have the Naval fleet to chase down Britain if we WANTED to. They wouldn't leave us alone, or let us go. Since they didn't listen to the Declaration of Independence, wouldn't that make THEM the aggressors? You still revolted. Who poked whom first is not the issue. (And the present leftist groups could argue EASILY that they were poked first.)
Posts: 3857
Sep 23 09 10:12 PM
barrelracer89 wrote: newmare wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: If you disagree with everything about it and you hate it that much... go somewhere else. That's why we have the Constitution, and that's why the Constitution can be amended. If you honestly don't want to "pledge allegiance to the flag" then that's fine. . .but honestly, there are other places you could go where you wouldn't have to worry about that. I don't want to sound like I'm saying "love it or leave it", but if you have a problem with the US government/state system/etc. then why wouldn't you put yourself in a more comfortable place? This is why we VOTE. This is why we started a representative democracy. So that when we see something go wrong we CAN change it. We don't HAVE to leave, because we can fix what we see as wrong. The constitution most certainly CAN be amended. We just ratified a new amendment in 1992. We've repealed amendments in the constitution. Because there are many GOOD things about the United States. Because there are so many things that I WOULDN'T want to change. Why move somewhere that has thing A I want but not B, C, D, E, and F when I can have B, C, D, E and F and just have to change A? I'm not saying anyone HAS to leave! I really and truly support differing opinions on politics. . .if we didn't have them, there would be no progress in thought.
Posts: 9196
Sep 23 09 10:13 PM
Posts: 1402
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Sep 23 09 10:14 PM
barrelracer89 wrote: WhoKilledBambi wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: Hey, we didn't even have the Naval fleet to chase down Britain if we WANTED to. They wouldn't leave us alone, or let us go. Since they didn't listen to the Declaration of Independence, wouldn't that make THEM the aggressors? You still revolted. Who poked whom first is not the issue. (And the present leftist groups could argue EASILY that they were poked first.) Townshend Acts. The colonies revolted because of unjust treatment.
newmare wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: I understand that newmare. However, not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance isn't doing anything to change what you don't like. You're just showing dis-loyalty, breaking up the nation from the inside out. Besides, most kids refusing to stand/say the pledge are only doing it for a publicity stunt/because their parents are in a flither about it. They don't even really know what they are saying. I see the first statement as a sort of sit in situation. Its expected for people to stand and do things, just as it was expected for blacks to give up their seats for whites. An all out war about the pledge of allegiance will not work. It will not help the cause. But a non violent "sit-in" just might help the cause. And sometimes, breaking up the nation is what is needed to get a point across. And as for the second statement, then why worry about them? They aren't doing anything to break up a nation. They are trying to upset their parents. Hardly an out cry for anything, and hardly going to start a revolution.
WhoKilledBambi wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: newmare wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: barrelracer89 wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: If you disagree with everything about it and you hate it that much... go somewhere else. That's why we have the Constitution, and that's why the Constitution can be amended. If you honestly don't want to "pledge allegiance to the flag" then that's fine. . .but honestly, there are other places you could go where you wouldn't have to worry about that. I don't want to sound like I'm saying "love it or leave it", but if you have a problem with the US government/state system/etc. then why wouldn't you put yourself in a more comfortable place? This is why we VOTE. This is why we started a representative democracy. So that when we see something go wrong we CAN change it. We don't HAVE to leave, because we can fix what we see as wrong. The constitution most certainly CAN be amended. We just ratified a new amendment in 1992. We've repealed amendments in the constitution. Because there are many GOOD things about the United States. Because there are so many things that I WOULDN'T want to change. Why move somewhere that has thing A I want but not B, C, D, E, and F when I can have B, C, D, E and F and just have to change A? I'm not saying anyone HAS to leave! I really and truly support differing opinions on politics. . .if we didn't have them, there would be no progress in thought. But you don't want people to express their different opinion through non violent action (oh, like maybe India?) I remember telling my school principle...Either we sit quietly and don't 'respect our country', or we start protesting and raising hell. It was her choice. Guess which one she picked.
Sep 23 09 10:17 PM
xxthephoenix89xx wrote: What on earth does sitting do to show your lack of support?
xxthephoenix89xx wrote: What on earth does sitting do to show your lack of support? Even if you don't agree with parts of your countries policies, you need to support it as a whole, for what it is: CHANGING. Countries, laws, etc are always morphing into what the public wants (or thinks they want). The Pledge doesn't say "I like this country the way it is, and don't ever want anything different." It says that you support your country. EVERY one should be able to stomach that.
Sep 23 09 10:18 PM
newmare wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: What on earth does sitting do to show your lack of support? So you don't think Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back of the bus did anything? You don't think the Greensboro sit ins did anything?
PonehWarrior wrote: newmare wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: What on earth does sitting do to show your lack of support? So you don't think Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back of the bus did anything? You don't think the Greensboro sit ins did anything? Again, not the same thing.
Sep 23 09 10:19 PM
PonehWarrior wrote: The American Revolution helped pave way to the French Revolution. Governments can't do whatever the hell they want to their people. It was a huge deal.
Sep 23 09 10:21 PM
WhoKilledBambi wrote: PonehWarrior wrote: The American Revolution helped pave way to the French Revolution. Governments can't do whatever the hell they want to their people. It was a huge deal. And the English came first. And there were many more beforehand. The point being that if the American Revolution was such a good thing, that rising up against British oppression was noble and just, why isn't strong political action against the [perceived] injustice showed by the government of the United States wrong?
Sep 23 09 10:23 PM
newmare wrote: PonehWarrior wrote: newmare wrote: xxthephoenix89xx wrote: What on earth does sitting do to show your lack of support? So you don't think Rosa Parks refusing to sit in the back of the bus did anything? You don't think the Greensboro sit ins did anything? Again, not the same thing. Well then by all means, enlighten me, tell me what WOULD be the same thing, and why its NOT the same thing.
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