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Posts: 33224
May 2 08 7:03 AM
Posts: 6812
May 2 08 7:10 AM
TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: Over the nose or under the chin would be harsher due to the leverage being used.
May 2 08 7:17 AM
KingOfTheJungle04 wrote: TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: Over the nose or under the chin would be harsher due to the leverage being used. When leading, a good bump is all that would be needed. But you don't lunge a horse with a chain on/under its nose or in it's mouth. And I don't find anything with chain links to be "kind" and can only imagine the amount of pinching it would present. I'd be livid if I had a horse on training board and found out some girl lunged my horse with a chain (I'm jumping to conclusions and saying the chain from the leadrope) in its mouth.
Posts: 879
May 2 08 7:27 AM
May 2 08 7:38 AM
TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: KingOfTheJungle04 wrote: TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: Over the nose or under the chin would be harsher due to the leverage being used. When leading, a good bump is all that would be needed. But you don't lunge a horse with a chain on/under its nose or in it's mouth. And I don't find anything with chain links to be "kind" and can only imagine the amount of pinching it would present. I'd be livid if I had a horse on training board and found out some girl lunged my horse with a chain (I'm jumping to conclusions and saying the chain from the leadrope) in its mouth. Ya see your not looking at the mechanics of it. If a chain is laying across the mouth its not going to be pinching because its streched tight vs. laying in a pile. Someday when you have a few more horses under your belt you'll see that chains are nowhere near as bad as you think they are now. I used to dislike chain bits an now I have a few.
May 2 08 7:46 AM
KingOfTheJungle04 wrote: Alright, first of all. You have no idea the amount of horses I have worked with so it would be best not to try and think you're "above me" with your comments. Your younger then me , its safe to assume that you havent worked with that many , or that you havent had to just make stuff up as you go. Chain bits, in my opinion, can be classified with twisted bits. Your ignorance is showing. The mechanics of BOTH are completely different. And to the point I was making, JackieE wasn't using a chain bit, but the chain (stud chain, I'm assuming) of a leadrope and then lunging the horse with it in it's mouth. A chain is a chain regardless of what its connected to. I could take a picture of the chain bit I have an a chain shank an they both look the same. It doesn't take much imagination to see the chain going slack and tight with the horse's movement - and thus pinching and grating. Wheres it going to pinch an grate? The links lay flat across the tongue an bars of the mouth , even when theres slack in the lead they still lay flat due to the nature an weight of the chain. If this horse doesn't know "whoa" in 4.5 months of training, chances are this colt can't lunge a perfect balanced circle without tugging on a lunge line either. At the tracks they do what we call a "woodbine smile" with is the chain on the gums. And I have, personally, see a few bloody gums from that. So, I don't see much of a difference between that, and a chain across the tender gums/bar. Once again the mechanics of how its being used.
Posts: 45
May 2 08 7:48 AM
Posts: 2203
May 2 08 7:52 AM
May 2 08 7:56 AM
Dutchy wrote: Imagine pressing something onto your skin hard, what would be more comfortable, a smooth or a not so smooth surface?
Chain would conform to the surface vs. say a regular snaffle that acts as a nutcracker. Chains are slightly rippled not exactly an abrasive surface.
May 2 08 8:12 AM
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May 2 08 8:16 AM
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May 2 08 8:19 AM
TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: Have you ever used a chain bit? They are quite possibly one of the kindest bits out there. The chain conforms to the horses mouth , its really not that harsh.
Posts: 670
May 2 08 8:20 AM
May 2 08 8:40 AM
KingOfTheJungle04 wrote: Actually, TRD, the difference between a chain on a bit and a chain on a leadrope, is that the chain on the bit cannot bunch up or go slack like that of a leadrope. Really? Because the one straight chain bit I have is the same kinda chain used on lead shanks. An every other chain bit i've used is the same. The leadropes I have with a chain attached, have atleast 12 inches of chain. Wrapping that into a horse's mouth still gives it a lot of room to go tight and slack continuously (especially with lunging) and thus catching and pinch the tongue and potentially causing injury. Where she say she wrapped it? So it goes loose , its still not gonna crumple into a pile that will pinch , it will hang down. Chain can only conform to a certain point when pressed against an object, you're still dealing with a piece of metal - snaffle or not. While yes, I agree that if mishandled, the centre of a snaffle can come up and crack the roof of the horse's mouth, it doesn't mean a slack chain is any better. Right. A hard unyielding surface , vs. one that be moved about. Again, I doubt JackieE was using a chain bit at all, but the long chain of a leadrope that she was likely leading this colt with. Though I'm sure once she gets on here and replies, she'll be able to clear up the issue.. I know she used a chain shank. But they are the same thing.
TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: Dutchy wrote: Imagine pressing something onto your skin hard, what would be more comfortable, a smooth or a not so smooth surface? Chain would conform to the surface vs. say a regular snaffle that acts as a nutcracker. Chains are slightly rippled not exactly an abrasive surface.
I don't call this slightly rippled: On soft tissue, that IS abrasive. And I think they're way to thin in most cases.
If you want a bit that conforms to the surface, use a leather meroth bit:
May 2 08 8:43 AM
Fetlock Up wrote: TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: Have you ever used a chain bit? They are quite possibly one of the kindest bits out there. The chain conforms to the horses mouth , its really not that harsh. Are you high? Chain bits are NASTY! People use chain bits when they want an extra amount of bite. Chain bits are very capable of cutting up a horse's lips and bars. The ONLY cut tongues I have ever seen have been from chain bits. I would NEVER use a chain bit and there is no possible way they can be considered kind.
Have you ever used on? I used to feel the same way until I kept hitting wall after wall with my Arab gelding. Bought one , tried to hurt my arm with it an couldnt. In order to be able to actually cut up a mouth they would have to have sharp edges or some sort of distortion to them (like a twisted wire does) They are kind because they conform to the mouth , the only thing not great about them is they kinda hang vs. setting up on the bars of the mouth.
May 2 08 8:46 AM
Dutchy wrote: TrickRoperDeluxe wrote: Dutchy wrote: Imagine pressing something onto your skin hard, what would be more comfortable, a smooth or a not so smooth surface? Chain would conform to the surface vs. say a regular snaffle that acts as a nutcracker. Chains are slightly rippled not exactly an abrasive surface. I don't call this slightly rippled: Its not pulled tight , poor example because when in use it wouldnt look like that. Whats wrong with this one? Hmm nothing. On soft tissue, that IS abrasive. And I think they're way to thin in most cases. Ok this one is cruel. I've never seen one like that. If you want a bit that conforms to the surface, use a leather meroth bit: I have a problem with leather bits. They don't last very long at all. Leather isnt meant to be soaking wet all the time nor does it taste good. Yuck. Or a double jointed snaffle, those conform to the surface pretty well, and dont have a rough surface. They do work well. But a chain bit is no more severe then they are.
I don't call this slightly rippled: Its not pulled tight , poor example because when in use it wouldnt look like that. Whats wrong with this one? Hmm nothing. On soft tissue, that IS abrasive. And I think they're way to thin in most cases. Ok this one is cruel. I've never seen one like that.
May 2 08 8:48 AM
May 2 08 8:51 AM
Dutchy wrote: I now read the last comment from TRD, she was using a chain shank. To me that's even worse that the chain end of a lead line. First off, I believe anything with shanks should have a non-jointed mouthpiece, or should have a mouthpiece that only allows very little movement. Lunging with a shank is just crazy, you do not have the feel you have when you're on the horse holding the reins, and when lunging you pull the shanks to one side, which is very uncomfortable and confusing for the horse.
Not a shank bit. Here in the USA we call the chain on a lead rope a shank to.
May 2 08 8:53 AM
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